Ali Ahn Unpacks Finale Turning Point for Eidra & Kate (Exclusive)

Eidra Park (Ali Ahn) really wants to trust Kate Wyler (Keri Russell) in The Diplomat, but the events of Season 4 have made that harder. The American ambassador and the Chief of the London CIA Station have become closer allies throughout the series, but a crushing betrayal from President Grace Penn (Allison Janney) in The Diplomat Season 4 finale changes everything. Warning: The Diplomat spoilers ahead!

An attempt on Grace’s life made her more hawkish than ever before in the fourth season, which premiered in full on Netflix on October 15. Kate tried to maintain a tense peace between the United States and the United Kingdom, but her attempts at doing so put her marriage at risk. After making a move similar to things Hal (Rufus Sewell) has pulled in the past, he threatened to leave her. But Kate was trying to prevent Grace from sending warships into British waters and threatening a NATO ally.

When Stuart, the Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. embassy in London, protested Grace’s military strategy in the State Department’s Dissent Channel (a move cosigned by Kate), Grace retaliated by recalling Stuart from his post, effectively firing him. The punishment for dissent was intolerable for Eidra, but Kate didn’t take immediate action to reverse the decision. In fairness, there wasn’t much she could do. But after Grace threatened the U.K. in front of its new prime minister, Bethan Vaughn (Jodie Whittaker) and the entire G7 Summit in Italy, Kate fought back.

She resigned in front of the entire delegation and walked out. Chief of Staff Billie Appiah (Nana Mensah) and Secretary of State Miguel Ganon (Miguel Sandoval) followed suit, and eventually, so did Vice President Hal Wyler. Can this help Eidra forgive Kate?

Here, Ahn discusses The Diplomat Season 4 finale and more Stuart and Eidra moments with TV Insider.

Nick Wall/Netflix

In Episode 6, Eidra proposes to Stuart, or proposes “thinking about marriage” to Stuart. And right after, Stuart tells Eidra that Kate blackmailed Trowbridge. And that kind of feels like the essence of the show to me in the sense that it’s peak personal intimacy combined with highly sensitive geopolitical intel. Do you think Eidra would want it any other way?

Ali Ahn: No, I don’t think she knows any other way. I think actually the struggle for her is to make space for the emotional drama. That’s something that she wants to turn down to a low volume. So yeah, I think Eidra treats it all the same.

Yeah. And in that moment, she’s shocked by the news, of course, but do you think that any part of her underneath the surface was like, “Oh, he knows me. I’m glad he told me this right now”?

Oh, 100%. The thing that’s interesting about this character is that she is somebody who at this point in Season 4, the only real relationship she feels like she can trust is her romantic one. Whereas I think she starts the season where she has no space for romance. It’s all actually about work.

But as the seasons have gone on, everybody at work has left her feeling like she can’t trust them and has left her out. She doesn’t have access to information. And so Stuart is the only person that keeps going to bat for her, which is ironic.

Idris Solomon/Netflix

She never expected that for sure. Kate asks Stuart and Eidra if she’s making the wrong move by taking the president’s orders. Do you think that makes them trust her more or are they hoping they can trust her?

I think they’re hoping they can trust her. The reality of being in the CIA is that you have to make decisions based on imperfect information and knowing that anyone can betray you at any point. And I think given what happened with Kate and Eidra in the third season, where Kate basically left Eidra out to dry and she almost got fired, I think that Eidra knows that, especially because of the Hal, Kate is kind of unpredictable. But I think in this moment she is their best hope for someone who is on the inside that is pushing for the right thing to happen.

When Eidra finds out the information that provides the context for the way Kate is acting, does she understand it or is it still a betrayal?

She does understand it. I think the thing that is interesting about Eidra is because what she does is complicated and is maybe morally gray, but in service of a greater mission, she does understand that there’s complicated reasons why you choose to do certain things.

I think she has less of a hard time with that than Stuart, for example, who I think is much more pure. Part of why Eidra and Kate get along or why Eidra is so excited when she first meets Kate is because I think she recognizes game. She’s like, “Oh, this is a person who’s willing to do hard things in order to get the job done,” as long as we’re all in agreement what the job is. I think what happens in Season 4 is you start to be like, “Are we on the same job? I’m not sure.”

There’s a feeling too that Kate is slipping into a Grace Penn type of mindset where she can justify the bad things.

One-hundred percent. And I think the truth is that Eidra has never trusted Hal. She learned very early on Hal is a wild card and he can flare things up in a way that’s very unhelpful. And I think that Kate’s loyalty to Hal over the seasons is a liability. Eidra sees that Kate’s biggest liability is her intimacy with Hal.

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Does her evolving intimacy with Stuart help her understand Kate a little bit more in that regard?

I think not because Stuart’s such a good guy. You know what I mean? Hal is slippery. There’s that thing of when you’re a smart woman, you’re like, “Girl, what are you doing?” I think there’s a little bit of, “You’re falling for that again?”

Yeah. In Episode 7, when Hal says Kate should have left him for doing what he did to her, and in the finale he says, “I don’t think I want this anymore,” I said to my TV, how dare you? The number of times that woman has forgiven you, how dare you? You get it once and you’re going to leave her? I got so mad.

That’s hilarious. But you know what? That’s something women should learn, right? Because it is a trope that we see is you forgive, you forgive, you forgive. And I think that’s something that Eidra sees in Kate, whereas I don’t think Eidra is that way actually. I think in some ways she’s way more practical. Her ability to compartmentalize is greater than Kate’s. For Eidra, she’s strategic, it’s like, oh, if this relationship isn’t working out, it’s not personal. She’s like, OK, all right, you do you. I’m going to do me moving on.

Even at the end when she finds out that Stuart is leaving and Kate asks her, do you want me to help you find a placement in D.C.? It has not even occurred to Eidra that she would follow Stuart. It’s only when Kate says that, that I think there’s a moment of like, wait, is that what I’m supposed to be doing? But it would never occur to her to do that. There’s a little bit of role reversal in terms of traditional masculine, feminine responses there. Eidra definitely in that relationship is the career-focused, the romance comes second person.

Nick Wall/Netflix

For sure. I’m glad you brought that up because I wanted to ask about it, that moment where she’s like, “What would our kids eat? Stuart has no job. Someone has to work,” kind of thing. She is operating in her usual mindset of pragmatism, but then she’s like, “Even if I wanted to have kids with him…” I think that’s really telling. Maybe before meeting Stuart, she wouldn’t have said that.

One-hundred percent not. That line was really shocking to me. And I talked about to Debora Cahn, our showrunner, quite a bit because I wanted to figure out how much is Eidra really considering this? I don’t think she’s ever considered having kids. I think it was sort of like, absolutely not [before]. I think it’s literally the first time she’s even uttered if we were to have kids, and that’s not even her proposing to have a proposal. It’s her asking the question about whether she could have kids.

So, it’s all just these tiny little baby steps. But that is certainly a huge admission and it means that her imagination has gone somewhere. Whether or not she’s going to follow through is another question, but I don’t think even in the past her imagination would even allow her to consider that question.

I was even surprised when Stuart brought it up when he was talking about how planning for marriage needs to be many conversations. I don’t recall him ever bringing that up before, so that was maybe a brewing thought on his mind as well.

Yeah. And I think it’s also the reality of being an adult in the world, even if you don’t talk about it, it is sort of the trajectory of people’s lives is you have a child. And I think this question of whether or not you’re going to have a family, whether you explicitly address it or not, is still in the zeitgeist.

So, I took it as that as these are things just like do you ever see yourself buying an apartment or do you ever see yourself having a retirement fund? These are practical logistical things that Stuart is saying we should have conversations around.

Erika Kuenka/Netflix

I find the suitcase scene where Eidra slides the suitcase over to Stuart for him to sit on, to balance out their height difference so he can zip up her dress, to be the most romantic thing this show has ever done. That took my breath away a bit, the intimacy of that. It’s second nature. They’re not even talking about it. It looks like they’ve done it before. And just the idea of having done that before is so sweet.

I know. And the brilliance of the writing is that there’s not even words exchanged in that moment. They’re not even talking to each other. One of the questions I’ve asked the showrunner several times is because this is the first time we see them have these soft moments with each other, I have always asked her, well, what’s the thing that’s keeping them together? Because we don’t see it. And as someone who also just loves the show, as a fan, as an audience member, I’m like, what keeps Stuart there? Eidra is not giving him much.

That scene was like, oh right, it is the unspoken vocabulary, the way that they take care of each other and give space for each other and understand the stakes of what they’re doing, that they can, while they’re both about to deal with some serious geopolitical sh*t, the moment right before they’re getting dressed up and listening to music and just having a quiet moment in each other’s presence before they have to go launch.

And not even listening to music, just singing together. I never imagined Eidra doing that. It’s so sweet.

It’s really sweet. I had to think about it. I was like, how does she relate to music? I think of it as something that Stuart brings out in her. She could be pretty spartan, so I think he allows her to allow for some play.

It’s beautiful. They clearly just are fluent in each other. When they were singing the song lyrics in that scene and said “I love you,” is that the first time we’ve seen them say that to each other?

They haven’t said it to each other. I definitely think Eidra is in the camp of like, well, clearly I don’t need to say it. Clearly you know.

Nick Wall/Netflix

Yeah, I think it’s very clear with those two. It was fun to hear though and think, “Oh wait, I don’t think we’ve heard that.” It’s so beautifully intimate. It’s like a home feeling.

Yeah, totally. And I think that it’s funny that you picked up on it because in my experience, obviously when you watch the show versus when you make it, it feels a lot longer when you’re shooting it. And in the span of the episode, it goes by really quick. But what I think is so great is that Eidra is the character that is the most emotionally kind of masked and withholding.

And so the fact that she is the one driving some of the most earnest romance this season actually works because it kind of offsets. And the way that scene is shot, the light is so soft and it really does have almost like a Pretty Woman vibe. There’s a diaphanous quality and she’s in pink. I remember when they picked the pink dress, I thought, pink, OK, that is really on the nose here. But it works because it’s balanced out with the kind of hardness of her the rest of the time.

It’s just great character work. To wrap up, does Eidra blame Kate for Stuart being recalled?

She’s definitely a part of the problem. She’s definitely complicit, I’ll say that. If it’s not her fault, she’s complicit.

And as you said before, it’s a very complicated thing, but Kate was teetering into justifying it. I think it was in part to make sure Hal didn’t lose his place because she was getting pressure there. And also the pressures of her job in general, being so close to the president, it’s easy to do the bad thing because there’s systems of power to protect you in that. But would what Kate does at the end change things for Eidra?

I think so. But of course the question is, I think we all want to know what’s on the other [side] because we don’t actually know what Hal says to the reporters, so you don’t actually know. But I do think Kate making that stance is powerful.

Eidra fundamentally wants to trust Kate, but I think it’s just she understands that alliances are constantly shifting. [Kate and Hal] are also a couple that has shown that they don’t mind being close to power. We’ll see how it goes from there.

The Diplomat, Seasons 1-4 streaming now, Netflix